One Missing Document Can Tear Families Apart with Renee Fry — Full Episode Transcript

Get something done, get something out there, because if something does happen, you don't want the courts to decide. And so instead of you having any say or any word in it just because you were too afraid to make a decision, now others make those decisions for you.

When caregiving feels overwhelming and the system feels impossible to navigate, this is your guide. Here, you'll learn ways to navigate long-term care planning, find real support for caregiving, and prepare you for the road ahead. I'm your host, Lindsay Friedman, and now you're not in this alone. Let's get started. Hello, and welcome back to another episode of LTCareNav's Care Compass. Today we are here with Renee Fry, who is the co-founder and CEO of Gentreo, an amazing company that she's going to tell you all about and that we are so excited to have had the opportunity to partner with. So welcome, Renee.

Thank you. Great to be here. Thanks, Lindsay.

So let's start by telling me about who you are, what you do, and why you do it.

Yeah. So who I am — that's always an interesting question, where people see you as like, you're an entrepreneur, you're a CEO, you're a mom. And so the good news is you can be all those things. And I also speak a lot for women in venture-backed companies, because with Gentreo we've been lucky to be one of the two percent of companies ever founded that get funded by VCs that are founded by women and led by women.

I think when I think about Gentreo, hopefully we work with like a hundred banks and credit unions today to do estate planning, and then really life milestone planning at the big moments in life. And so as we've grown, when we think about ourselves, we keep reaching out to more and more areas of life, because estate planning starts out as being something that's relevant to so many different parts of life. But then we started growing and more things around where can we be relevant to people in the times when they need us most.

So when you say life milestones, what are a couple of examples of these life milestones that people should keep an eye out for?

So it depends on where you are in life, but some of the big ones are: are you caring for an aging parent? This is how we all — you know, you guys are experts and all that — having a baby, getting married, getting divorced. So we have about 50 different life milestones that we cover. And it's those big times in your life when things are changing and it's not something that everyone's always prepared for. And we've found too that the answer should not just be, I'll Google that. Or lately, hey, my gosh, ChatGPT and I had this fantastic conversation. It's like, no, okay, no. So we realize that for all these important times in life, this is when money's changing hands, there's relationships involved. These are the times in life when you really need people to be able to help you.

'Cause you just mentioned relationships. Is this a platform for an individual? Like, would I be doing this with myself, or is it something that I would sit down with my husband and we would do together, even though one of those life milestones may be like not being together? I mean, I don't anticipate that. That's not what I'm saying. I'm sure—

No, no, no, no. I love it. But yeah, I think that's important though, right? Because life changes, and this is where people need to know that life might be one way today, but in six months from now, maybe it's a different story. And so a lot of times people start on their own, but then if they want to do things from the legal side for the estate planning side of Gentreo, doing a joint trust, that's something you definitely need to be doing with the person that you're doing the joint trust with. And so having the conversation so the joint trust can look the same and all that needs to be really thought out, and you need to do those things together.

But there's a lot of things too that we need to be thinking about for ourselves. And even over on the estate planning side, things like a healthcare proxy, power of attorney — those are all documents that only you can have for you. And so you're not gonna have the same healthcare proxy as your spouse. You're not gonna have the same power of attorney. And so you have to have your own unique documents in that regard.

So on your platform, we can come in and do this together and then kind of branch off and do what we want separately?

So most people, you have to have your own account. So yeah, because what we need to do is make sure that you identify who you are, and then that fills out the documents and things on the estate planning documents around who are you, where's your address, where do you live. And what most people don't understand is that when you're thinking about estate planning, the state that you reside in drives all the legal issues that you're going to have to deal with. And so like if you live in Massachusetts, it's different from if you lived in West Virginia. How the documents are formed and things in the estate planning world varies state by state.

And when an individual is sitting ready to sit down to do this, how do they have the conversation with their family or their partner and say, I'm doing this? And how do you address it if the person that you're having the conversation with is like, I don't like your decisions?

So we give lots of checklists. So on the gentreo.com website, if people come today, even if you don't want to be a Gentreo customer, there are lots of checklists and a lot of blogs out there that you can share with people. First, it's always good to have a good source of information, because there's too much junk out on the internet that just is bad advice. One time we had a mother's group call us and say, we all need this document. We're like, our lawyer has never heard of that document. She's been an estate planning attorney for 25 years. What are you guys talking about? But it was some forum they were all in and all just got going. I'm just like, stop!

So this is where there's tons of information so that everybody can learn. And then we also try — and this is where we start with the life milestones — is we try to relate it to what people are going through. So if you are caring for your aging parent, you want to be thinking about things a little bit differently than if it's for yourself. And so how do you create documents for people where they are in their lives? And then make sure that you keep up with them throughout their lives, because things will change. Your assets — like you might have a different home. Maybe you've got different relationships. So you want people to care for you, or you want different people to care for you. So it's always about keeping things updated. That's really important.

What do you say to people who are like, I don't need this. I don't have enough assets. I don't have enough reason for this?

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Because this is where again, people always tell us stories. Like once we say what we do or where — Gentreo, you know, start with estate planning — people are like, let me tell you my story. And everyone — we're really fun at dinner parties, my sister and I, because she's our co-founder. When we walk around, I tell people, and then we're like, well, what happens if you don't have a will? And they're like, well, let me tell you.

And this is where everyone over the age of 18, and as you're mentally competent, pretty much needs estate planning documents. And the one thing that people don't understand is that estate planning documents are things like a healthcare proxy and a power of attorney. Those are for while you are alive. And then after you pass away, things like a will kick in. But people need to really think about, okay, well, what decisions do I want made for me? Because if you don't make them, the court will make them for you, or the court will appoint people to make decisions for you. So that's something that we always are reminding people. But you have this opportunity to make your decision. So even if you're not a gazillionaire, you can still make your own healthcare decisions. Make them known. Let people know what you want.

And then as we go through life milestones, let people know what you are thinking, what you want to have happen. And things like children — if you pass away, who would you want to care for your children? That information goes in a will. And so this is when people are like, I'll get to it someday. Or like, okay, but you don't know — like the drivers in Massachusetts, I face them every day and I'm afraid. Like, come on, guys, you need to be thinking a little bit further ahead. And so we always encourage everyone just to bite the bullet. You can do it. And then you can keep your documents updated. But it's easy, it's fast, and now it's portable, and it's super affordable.

And it really is, like, an easy portal to work with. You guys have done such a great job. But I think you and I are facing the same thing — these are hard things to talk about, like long-term care and estate planning.

Yeah. But I can tell you the one thing I've learned is that having these tools available, and then knowing that there are other people that have created these tools because they've lived through it, makes such a difference. Because there's a lot of folks that I meet that are like, there's this new tool out there. And I always tell people, well, was it created by someone who's lived this? Did they go out and interview the people who've actually lived going through what they're developing the products for? And they're like, I never thought about that.

And it's like, well, you know, you're gonna find a better set of tools from people that talked with a lot of folks that went through what they're trying to help you with, or maybe went through it themselves and then reached out and talked to other people. And that's what we learned. So some of the things around Gentreo, we include the digital vault and let people save and share information. Like our dad had seven strokes before he passed away. And my mom literally, Lindsay, she carried around a post-it note in her purse with his medication and his doctors. And he had twelve doctors and probably about 16 medications.

And so the idea that whenever something would happen — and after seven strokes and the ambulance would come, and he had Alzheimer's — and she'd whip out this little — no, and it was just, mom, you gotta get — you'll never lose your phone. Right. So that's why we did things like the digital vault, so she could always have my dad's healthcare proxy, which we had shared with her, his medication list, his doctor's information. It's like, mom, as long as you have your phone, you now have all this information. And this is something that you'll feel so much better knowing that it's right there, instead of rifling through your purse when things are — and you're crying and there's tears and you're trying to find your post-it note and they're asking you how long's he been sick and you're whipping — it's like, mom, you'll never lose your phone.

So this is why we always work to make sure people have things like digital vaults and tools like instant access shares, instant access buttons, instant share things, because that's how life works. And so it's having products developed by people who have lived this that really can be different from just folks who thought the technology was cool.

And I think the other thing to note is anyone who's sitting and listening and going, but I have a notes app, right? Like, I'll just put in the notes app. Don't put in a notes app. I did the notes app for a long time with like my stuff for my daughter. And then you realize you're scrolling and scrolling and you realize your notes apps are of no use to anybody, including yourself. So to really have a nice way where you can instantly pull stuff up for doctors or people who need it at any time is super helpful.

Yeah. Spot on. You just need to be able to hit a few buttons and get to exactly what you need. You can't be — 'cause searching through notes is like searching through the purse, right? You're just like, sir, it's here somewhere. But you just want to be able to hit a button, get there.

No, and that's fantastic. And I think maybe that kind of takes some of the scariness out of it as you walk them through what they need. 'Cause maybe a big part of it is you don't even know where to start. So if we say to somebody who's like, I don't know what I'm gonna do, like, I don't even know where to start, it's not even worth, like, I can't think about it today—

That's where Gentreo has lots of checklists. So lots of blogs, lots of checklists, just so you can even start learning. And then when you join Gentreo, it pops up and it says, what documents can we help you get started with today? And so a lot of people choose to get started with a healthcare proxy, because once they realize that it takes maybe three minutes to fill out your healthcare proxy, people think, hmm, that's really easy. I'm gonna be able to do this. And I'll be able to get to my power of attorney.

And once we get people set up, we've saved all their information and have those basic details. But once people see that it's pretty easy, it's like, okay, I can do this. And then sometimes — I'm going to encourage this too — it's really important for people to be thoughtful about their decisions. And so we always help people understand your information is always saved. You can always come back and start again. But it's one of those things where when people get to some of the tough questions, they are like, hmm, what do I want? Or who should care for my children? Or sometimes those conversations that you mentioned need to happen as well, because maybe you want to leave a different caregiver for your minor children than your spouse, which happens all the time.

And so people haven't had those conversations before. So they need to take a little bit of time to be thoughtful in their decisions and then have the conversations. But that's where everything is always saved, so you can come back and get started again.

How does somebody start having the conversation with themselves? Because if they're sitting and listening, going, I really don't know what I want, or I'm not quite sure. And what if I'm making the wrong decision? Lots of people are afraid of that.

We hear that all the time. But you have to do something, and you can come back and change. So the reason we also made it so that at Gentreo, you can change your documents as many times as you want. We did find one time there's a gentleman who made about twenty-two changes in the course of one weekend. So the system flagged it as maybe this gentleman we should reach out and just make sure that he's not having issues, because we can't see anyone's documents or what they're building, but we can see how many changes someone's making. And he just — it was so cute, because he emails back and he's like, no, I can't decide who I don't like more. Okay. Very honest.

And so I think we're happy he didn't use the word hate, but he had a hard time choosing who in his family he wanted to do, and so he kept changing his mind. Back and forth, back and forth. And so that's something that's very common. But a lot of times it's get something done, get something out there, because if something does happen, you don't want the courts to decide. That's called — if you die, it's called dying intestate. And so the laws of your individual state — each state has their own laws — they kick in. And that's what your family now faces. And so instead of you having any say or any word in it, just because you were too afraid to make a decision, now others make those decisions for you.

What happens when you really have nobody, where you're looking at your family going, I just don't trust any of these people? What do you recommend and how does that play into it?

You can actually name outside people, and there are services that people will be the executors of your will for you, or sometimes charities. Those might be something too to look into, because if you really don't want your family dealing — you can choose charities. And that's something that we put into the trust and the wills and the documents as well, because sometimes it might just be easier to say, you know what, I've always loved the SPCA, I love dogs, they're gonna get everything. And that way the families aren't sitting there arguing.

And then also it's when you tell your family — some timing things work too. And this is where we always see Thanksgiving be a very busy time for us, because people are together as families. And so sometimes people are afraid to say anything. Other people want to sit down and have a whole big family conversation with checklists and making sure everything's there. And both things work, but it's just about making sure you get documents and estate plans in place. But then also that the documents can be found. Because if people can't find your will — there's the Aretha Franklin story where she had five wills or something and the final one was like stuffed in her couch. But you have to be able to find the last one that is witnessed, and maybe notarized if that's what your state says, because that's that official piece of paper where you actually literally need the physical copy.

So we help people save the digital copies, but you really need to have the raised seal if it's notarized, things like that. And so we help people in their digital vault say, where is that physical copy as well? Because that's one of the things people don't know, or they're like, you know, I've spent three days searching for my mom's will because I thought it would be in this, but it's not, it's not here. And so this is where people send us emails and usually we don't respond because they're like, for four bloody days I've been looking for this. And we're like, we're sorry, we can't help you. And you always want to let people know where are your documents, where are things saved. And that you do have to pick and choose people, because someone's gonna have to know.

Do you have something in your app that says, like, at the bottom of the document, this is where the physical one is? So somebody, if they're like, okay, we really can't find it, they can look and say, okay, this is where at least the last spot that mom wrote that it was?

You can put that in your digital vault. You can actually put that little note in your digital vault. You can't put it on the — you might be able to, but we don't — you don't put it on the original physical document, but you can put that information in the digital vault so people know.

That one I think will be really helpful. I have heard of a lot of people going, we just can't find it. We have this great copy and we know, but you still need the raised seal.

Yeah. And so that's the practical part, and that kind of goes back to why my sister and I created Gentreo, because these were all the things we had to learn. And things like power of attorney — people think, I did my documents 20 years ago and I'm all good. And we're like, no, you're not. Your healthcare proxy is now outdated. Like, you're probably now 50. That was when you were 22 and you went to college or 20. And now the hospital's not going to take a 20-year-old healthcare proxy, healthcare power of attorney, because your decisions may not be the same — and I'm guessing probably not, because you're twenty-five years older, you now had three kids and maybe you really would like every life-sustaining measure.

So the hospital wants to make sure it's within certain windows. Or a power of attorney — if you walk into a bank and you're like, hey, here's a power of attorney from 30 years ago, give me all my dad's money, they are probably not going to want to do that. So that's where those documents have to be updated, and things like assets and relationships change too. So one of the things we always work with people on is, hey, understand that your life is changing. That means documents and how you make your decisions probably need to change as well.

I have a friend whose aunt and uncle were married at the time — her uncle, at the time, they didn't have any children — and they'd given her everything. She was related by the aunt; she didn't really know the uncle, but they had no children. So they'd given her everything, and the man had passed away and forgot to update his document and had had other kids and other family. And so my friend got a call that she got all this. She called me, she's like, this is really weird. She goes, I can't take this. I'm like, his family, his new family that you don't even know is gonna be very thankful that you are doing this. And most people are not gonna be as nice as my very little friend.

Wow. I know. Luckily your friend was kind and said, I don't think he meant to do this. But most people might have to think a few times. There are stories like that too — there was a big-time banker in New York and he didn't update things, and so his third wife got nothing, and he'd left it all to wife number two. So this is where you always need to be cognizant of making sure things are updated. So we tell people, hey, if you're looking at your taxes every year, maybe what you can do is take a look at your estate plan too. It's fantastic that you've done it and you're ahead of most of the world, but at the same time, you're gonna make sure it's updated. Otherwise, things will happen that you just didn't intend.

And now, so we've talked about all of your assets, your children, but one thing that you do that I never would have thought about — and as much as I love my dogs, like I love them, they're definitely up there in my world — can you talk a little bit about that?

They're like the forgotten family members. And some people love their pets more than their people. And what we found too is especially for some of the younger generations, they don't have children, but pets are their children. So whether it's their dog, their cat, multiple dogs and cats, or even horses — like horses are on a whole other level, the net worth, my gosh.

And so what we did was we put together things around two documents that can be really important. So a pet trust. So if you want to leave money to your pet, you really can't do that. You can't name your pet in your will and just say everything goes to Fluffy. It doesn't work that way. You have to set up a person who's going to get that money. But if you do it in a pet trust, you can say what that money should be used for. So you can say food, care, everything that involves your pet.

And then the other document is a pet power of attorney. And so if you're on vacation and someone's babysitting your pet and something happens and they say, okay, well, we need to put the pet down — well, you're not the owner, I'm not doing this. Or in other cases, they'll say things like, hey, this is an eight-thousand-dollar pet bill and you're not the owner, so we're not doing anything because we need to make sure we're getting paid. And so that's where a pet power of attorney really helps make sure that the vet knows they're going to get paid and that the person who you've left the responsibility to for the animal really does have — you've given them that responsibility.

So those are the two important pet documents. And then in your will, you can also say who's going to get your pet. And that is a very important discussion to have, because there are some of your family that may find out they're inheriting a pet and say, hmm, I don't really want that responsibility. Whereas other people like, wait, the dog's not coming to me? I want the dog. And so these are conversations that should be had before something does happen. And we talk to people all the time where they're saying, all my kids know. No — not all the kids know. Or they may not be in financial situations to be able to take on pet care, because it's not something that's always affordable, right?

Yeah, after our dog had a torn ACL, a torn other ligament thing — after those surgeries and things like that, because it's your pet, you're always gonna be there for your pet and you wanna do everything. But some people in your family may not have the same ability to afford some of that other people can. But you can always do the pet trust and leave them with the funds to do it though, right?

You can do that. That's right. Yep.

My dad has a parrot. It's gonna live a hundred years. My friend from college, her parrot is still going, kicking, he's still at it. And my gosh — the parrot is older than me, but the thing is gonna live like another 40, 50 — it could live up to like 85, 90 years old. And when my parents were doing their documents, I was like, so you need to give my sister — she can have the bird and you can give her a trust for the bird.

It's important though, right?

Oh, I know. We're dog people, not bird people, so I would have a hard time. There are better choices, right, that people can make. The thing terrified me — it chased me when I was little, down the hallway, and I've been traumatized ever since. So it was very clear, like, that bird is not coming to me.

Well, my mom is almost 80 and she has a little spunky little dog, and she's like, okay, if something happens to me, you gotta just get on a plane, fly in, and just be there for the dog. And I was like, I'm there, mom. We'll be there for the dog. Is it in the documents? It is, actually. He goes for ice cream every day, and she's like, I have to take Blu out for his ice cream. And I was like, okay, mom, Blu has to go out for his ice cream. So he's a family member and he needs the care. She's told me nineteen times that I will be on the first plane out — not to come be at her funeral, not to do anything, but just make sure I'm there for that dog. So it's gonna be a lot of moral support.

Yeah. Any last advice, anything you want people to know, and where to find you?

Yeah. So gentreo.com, G-E-N-T-R-E-O dot com. And people always ask us where did the name come from? But it means three generations to us, because so many people are caring for their parents, themselves, and probably children as well. And so that's where we wanted to make it easy for everyone to be able to create documents and then to be able to help all the other family members or people in their lives that they care for. And that's what Gentreo means to us.

And I can tell you that when we go around having the conversations, like please do your documents, right? Just get started. Because unfortunately so many people have a story, and you'd rather be the good story of saying, you know what, we had the documents in place and so we knew our dad had the decisions made that he wanted. Be on that side of the discussions instead of being the people like, let me tell you. And then they don't talk to their brother anymore. And I wish I were kidding, but there's more than — it's a pretty decent majority of people that had no documents, the people thought they were getting money and stuff. And it's like, wait, you've given up your entire relationship with your brother and stuff over a necklace. And then when they think about it, they're like, yeah, and whoops, you didn't do that.

And so we always tell people just look, it's affordable now. Get your documents done and keep them updated. And then as your life changes, think about what decisions you want to make sure are being made, and then go back and update documents. And this is why we have a 93% retention rate at Gentreo, because we can help everybody save their information, update their documents anytime. We don't charge extra for any of that. That's because your life will change and you want to make sure your decisions are represented so others aren't making them for you.

It's so important. So everyone listening, go ahead and do that, because most likely you haven't yet.

Yes. The statistics say that. And so we're like, okay, you just — come on, guys, it's easy now. There's no more excuses.

No more excuses. So go to Gentreo, fill out your forms, and we will be back with you next time, and we expect your forms to be filled out.

Thanks, Lindsay.

Thank you. All right, that's a wrap for today. Until next time, remember, you're not alone. Take things one step at a time, stay centered, and trust your compass. See you next time on LTCareNav's Care Compass.